fidotron 6 minutes ago
This was totally the right move, if for no other reason than it's the only thing that this US admin will respect in the long run.

Being in Canada though this does look v. short sighted of the US. All this is going to achieve is pushing Canada much closer to other countries, particularly China, which at least superficially these negotiations were meant to prevent.

Phelinofist 49 minutes ago
Good for Canada, quite a shame the EU folded so easily
linohh 47 minutes ago
He'll be nullifying any agreement within two or three tantrums anyway, eventually we will learn and retaliate.
ibic 14 minutes ago
Pity that for such an obvious fact that even peasants like me can easily see, the "elite" European political leaders are still playing ostrich.
lukan 46 minutes ago
And maybe the US will learn again, that a great deal is something that people can rely on?
oefrha 2 minutes ago
[delayed]
stevenwoo 4 minutes ago
The 65 percent approval rating from GOP voters right now says no, they are happy with immigration, culture war nonsense and trade chaos. Red states and rural areas would need to be targeted specifically and even then all interviews indicate those voters won’t consider choosing the other side, most of that GOP opposition will at best just not vote.
linohh 27 minutes ago
Not in this administration.
voidfunc 21 minutes ago
Not with 50%+ of the country supporting this administration.

Its the people that are the problem. These policies and politics will outcast Trump because middle Anerica and The South are filled with morons.

fn-mote 13 minutes ago
Disagree.

Leadership matters.

A different leader could take the country in a different direction - with the same voting base.

Eg an actual policy of isolationism instead of instigating multiple foreign conflicts.

toddmorey 14 minutes ago
Luckily he does not enjoy anywhere close to 50% support
jleyank 14 minutes ago
More bigots than morons. I’m folding American exceptionalism into bigotry along with all the usual aspects.
SideburnsOfDoom 6 minutes ago
> Not with 50%+ of the country supporting this administration

That's not even close to an accurate number now. There are many sources e.g. (1)

It's a shame that people mostly learn the hard way, and forget easily. But that's not the support now.

1)

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-approval-falls-33-low...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3fRIleMK-8

bell-cot 6 minutes ago
> Not with 50%+ of the country supporting this administration.

I'd suggest checking Trump's current approval ratings.

> ... are filled with morons.

The morons who are the real problem are the ones running the Democratic Party. Notice just how badly they wanted to run Joe "Missing Marbles" Biden against Trump in '24?

llm_nerd 43 minutes ago
Trump believes everything on this planet is zero sum, and the only way you can benefit is if the other party hurts. His entire history on this planet betrays this, where he is an unreliable scumbag to everyone he has ever dealt with, to the point where the guy couldn't find vendors or a bank outside of Russia to deal with him. And then Americans said "this is the guy we should put in charge".

It is a particularly interesting position when the US is trying to counter China. The only hope the US had was an alliances with other Western-style nations, but instead it has been nothing but attacks and diminishing.

__s 39 minutes ago
If only things were zero sum stick-in-bicycle meme decision making would benefit others
pjc50 32 minutes ago
> It is a particularly interesting position when the US is trying to counter China.

The US put countering China way behind on its priority list, below "owning the libs" and settling old scores. I am convinced that if the Iran decapitation had worked like Venezuela, which seems to have been what they expected, then Cuba would have been next.

stevenwoo 45 seconds ago
I am surprised the USA has not attacked Cuba yet. I am guessing the rundown on missile stocks has eliminated the possibility of a 100 percent air/navy campaign like they failed at in Iran.
lukan 30 minutes ago
And then greenland.
myko 17 minutes ago
If the goal of a presidency was to destroy the country one could not do a better job than trump.
soperj 12 minutes ago
Cuba doesn't have oil.

The point is to prop up Putin.

lukan 40 minutes ago
"The only hope the US had was an alliances with other Western-style nations"

Maybe Trump bets on his great relations with Putin and Kim instead.

eru 31 minutes ago
No, not good for Canada. Free trade is optimal, even if its unilateral.

The EU should abolish their tariffs and let the clowns in the US do whatever they feel like.

Tepix 28 minutes ago
Nope, the EU should use the trade bazooka against the US.
eigenspace 38 minutes ago
The EU didn't really fold, they blew him off. It was just a bunch of "yeah sure Donny, here's a bunch of meaningless promises we have no ability or mechanism to actually enforce". For example they promised to buy a bunch of gas, but the EU has no mechanism to make companies or even member states buy gas.

The only real concession the EU made was just allowing Trump to tariff them at a certain rate, and not counter-tariffing back (with various escape clauses).

While the EU response certainly wasn't a feel-good display of chest thumping, I think it was somewhat effective. He was able to strut around and feel big, and they were able to move on.

The only reason the EU would really want to apply counter tariffs against the USA would be to either make a point, or because they are actually afraid that exports from the USA could outcompete EU products unless tariffed, but this just isn't really the case right now.

___________________

The only form of retailiation I think the EU should actually be pursuing is the equivalent of tariffs on US software. This is the area that the USA is a highly competitive 'exporter', and putting up barriers agaisnt these software services would be a good way to hurt the USA, and protect / stimulate domestic alternatives.

u1hcw9nx 14 minutes ago
To add into what you said. EU’s Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism (CBAM) already affects the United States, though its impact varies depending on the sector. CBAM is big permanent change, and that will be rolled in smoothly below all this.

EU has carbon tax internally and they are rolling out CBAM to prevent "carbon exports" (manufacturing stuff outside EU and then importing those product without tax). CBAM is currently used directly some high-emission sectors: iron and steel, aluminum, fertilizers, cement, electricity, and hydrogen.

EU importers require granular data on the embedded emissions (both direct and indirect). US companies in these supply chains have had to overhaul how they track and verify carbon intensity down to the sub-supplier level to help their EU buyers comply with strict European reporting standards.

EU will gradually expand CBAM after allowing supply chains to adjust.

paganel 11 minutes ago
And then the Europeans suddenly discover that they cannot manufacture enough artillery shells and tanks to out-number the Russians.
eigenspace 8 minutes ago
You are not very informed on the EU's artillery shell production capabilities.

If anything, the major gap is the EU's lack of cheap drone manufacturing, but even that is starting to make progress with help and integration from Ukraine.

guerrilla 34 minutes ago
Not just software but online services. That would help us a lot and is safer anyway.
stephbook 33 minutes ago
Europe/EU are highly reliant on the US military and these issues are linked.
vintermann 12 minutes ago
For what? Defense against Russia?

I suspect that if my country gave Putin what we give to the US - military bases where they can do whatever they please no questions asked, real-time intelligence access, unofficial favored supplier status for anything that might be control-relevant, quiet veto power over any national policy decision deemed "strategic" - then we wouldn't have to worry about invasion - from Russia anyway. Why invade what you already own?

I think that price is a little too steep, though. Not to mention that the US would then be at least as willing to topple governments/invade as Russia currently is.

eigenspace 22 minutes ago
The EU would strongly prefer to have US military support, but does not fundamentally need it. In the miltiary domain, but also lots of other domains, the EU is using these fake promises they made to Trump as a mechanism to buy time while they quietly work on removing US dependencies, and reducing US leverage.
evgen 25 minutes ago
The EU has no real reliance on US military might. Russia has been shown to be a paper tiger and the EU can use Ukraine as a proxy to cripple Russia while keeping their hands relatively clean.
tgsovlerkhgsel 19 minutes ago
I wish you were right, but look at Ukraine's desperate requests for Patriot missiles and Switzerland letting the US screw them repeatedly to get F-35 and Patriot.
spockz 32 minutes ago
Regarding the retaliation, I’m unsure who would be hurt more. There are very few ready alternatives to the MS office suite, and none with the close integrations like AD. Most corps run on Microsoft. If those contracts get slapped with tariffs they would become unmanageable to buy.

Then, because it isn’t on-premise anymore where you could just continue running without paying for the service contract you lose direct access to the product. So that might even mean whole companies going under.

mytailorisrich 31 minutes ago
If Europe does't buy gas from Russia then that leaves Qatar and the US. Qatar does sell a lot to Europe (hence you'll notice how "friendly" Europe is towards Qatar) but is vulnerable to instability in the straight of Ormuz.

The US are making a fortune on gas at the expense of Europe an it's not that the promise to buy gas is meaningless because unenforceable within Europe, it's that it was already happening in practice. And that makes Europe even more dependent on the US (while the complaint was that we could't buy gas from Russia and depend on them).

eigenspace 18 minutes ago
Yes, the EU does rely on buying US gas as an important part of its energy mix, and that's why the EU is aggressively pursuing and building up alternatives including investments in Canada's ability to export LNG, but also buildouts of solar, wind, and batteries.

Solar and batteries come with their own dependencies on China, but at least those are a different sort of dependency than fossil fuels. If China stops exporting solar / batteries, the ones we have will still keep functioning for decades while alternatives are built up.

tgsovlerkhgsel 21 minutes ago
The EU also stopped enforcing its laws (like DMA and GDPR) against US tech companies.
eigenspace 16 minutes ago
They paused some investigations while the negotiations happen, but most of those are back on track now.
shevy-java 34 minutes ago
> The only real concession the EU made was just allowing Trump to tariff them at a certain rate

No. Van der Leyen also promised EU investments into the USA. This is betrayal as well; that money should go into EU countries. Or Canada.

watwut 29 minutes ago
That was kind of an estimated sum of investments european companies planned to make anyway. It is not like eu started to build up im us.
myko 2 minutes ago
True, though the prudent move would be to stop investing in the US entirely
whatsThisBtn4 5 minutes ago
This is not good for Canada.

I'm watching democracy fail across the world with short sighted policies that make for patriotic news but terrible for day 3 and beyond.

Populist demagogues from Trump to Zohran are getting elected. Today's candy is tomorrow's stomach ache.

Getting some Cleon and Alcibidies vibes.

atherton94027 4 minutes ago
Why put Zohran in the same bag as trump? From what I can see NYC is running pretty well
duttish 47 minutes ago
I was so embarrassed by that. You can't back down to a bully, he'll just ask for more the next day.
eru 32 minutes ago
No, not good for Canada. Free trade is optimal, even if its unilateral.

Canada should abolish their tariffs and let the clowns in the US do whatever they feel like.

wood_spirit 15 minutes ago
Yanis Varoufakis - aside from being radically left and becoming the finance minister in Greece after their financial crisis hit - is a professor in game theory and economics.

He did a pretty good explanation of the difference between theory and practice in his Rest is Politics Leading podcast interview recently :).

Sticks in my mind and well worth listening.

plufz 29 minutes ago
I guess it has a little to do with your goals. Optimal trade economically or avoiding giving something that looks like a win to this type of politicians with the goal of avoiding re-electing trump. I don’t know what science say here.
intended 4 minutes ago
In a vacuum or thought experiment.

China put tariffs specifically on the sectors that voted for Trump and depended on sales to China.

When the other party is not playing the same game, or not playing in fairness, then the best game theoretical move is to cease cooperation and retaliate.

jambalaya8 31 minutes ago
nah
nchmy 46 minutes ago
Nice to see them putting up a fight. Though I assume this will cause pain for everyone.

One note: aren't these sentences strange - like a series of half-thoughts? Especially the 2nd paragraph.

> Our government understood, before many, that America is altering all its trade relationships. Putting tariffs on its closest allies and charging for access to its vast market. > > We have worked in that context. To strike a fair deal that would provide the best access to the U.S. market and greater certainty to Canadian businesses and workers.

tgsovlerkhgsel 18 minutes ago
> Though I assume this will cause pain for everyone.

Yes, but the pain is likely unavoidable. The alternative is much more pain, but slightly later/more spread out, from repeatedly giving in.

nchmy 10 minutes ago
Yeah, quite likely. It is surely for the best to stand up
epgui 38 minutes ago
No, it’s just written as speech.
DiogenesKynikos 34 minutes ago
It's a transcription of a spoken speech. The periods between connected clauses are just where Mark Carney paused for a moment.
nchmy 23 minutes ago
Ah! I was not aware that it was a transcription.

Yes, I had the thought that it sounded a lot like speech.

Thanks.

mhandley 28 minutes ago
I wonder what would happen if Canada taxed electricity exports to the US, and used the money to directly subsidize other exported goods the US applies tariffs to?
chii 20 minutes ago
> taxed electricity exports

it is easy to tax exports, but this makes the export less profitable (for the entity making that export). Unless you mean the producer raises prices to cover the new tax - in which case, the export is now more expensive, and less of it gets exported.

It doesn't really help with the tariff situation much in any case - a political problem requires a political solution (such as reciprocal tariffs). Both sides hurt, and there's no good outcome.

tgsovlerkhgsel 18 minutes ago
> less of it gets exported

Depends whether demand is flexible or not.

scotty79 4 minutes ago
It might be good to tax exports and use the proceeds to subsidize Canadian consumers. This should snuff out the dependence on export to US pretty fast with little harm to Canadian companies.
jleyank 26 minutes ago
Harsh, but same for oil and potash. Other minerals too.
Gabrys1 12 minutes ago
I think a retaliation for a tariff should be an export tax. Let's say Canada puts a 50% export tax on maple syrup unless the car tariff is withheld
unsupp0rted 10 minutes ago
What's wrong with Vermont maple syrup?
Gabrys1 2 minutes ago
Make it car exports as well. A small 5-10% export fee, so that the premium Americans pay for the cars is distributed between both countries
threetonesun 2 minutes ago
Nothing, but they don’t make enough. Unless it claims to be 100% Vermont it’s likely blended with Canadian or entirely Canadian maple syrup.
Gabrys1 5 minutes ago
I don't know, maybe there's not enough of it?

> Canada supplies the overwhelming majority of U.S. maple-syrup imports.

Gabrys1 4 minutes ago
Oh, also add a note on the bottle that this higher price is thanks to your beloved Trump.

Canadians are way too nice to do this, but it would be sensational.

bell-cot 49 seconds ago
What percent of the market does it have, and how elastic is the supply?
candlemas 14 minutes ago
"However, last-minute changes in the U.S. proposed terms were unfair, uneconomic, and called into question the reliability of any deal."

It seems like if the other side agrees to a deal too easily then Trump doesn't think the deal is good enough. He only likes deals where the other side is getting screwed and has to be coerced into signing.

scotty79 7 minutes ago
> It seems like if the other side agrees to a deal too easily then Trump doesn't think the deal is good enough.

That's a great observation. So basically everybody should be saying no to him all the time to limit the damage because as long as there's one yes the stupidity will only grow.

I'm so glad there wasn't a single yes, when Greenland popped up.

jleyank 38 minutes ago
Note that these new tariffs are on goods covered by CUSMA, making that treaty inoperative. Pity it’s one Trump signed…

One must stand up to bullies otherwise they’ll keep at it. Until the US population feels the pain the rest of the world has been dealing with, nothing will change.

K0balt 20 minutes ago
Oh, we’re feeling the pain. Anyone trying to actually build things in the USA relies on an increasingly unpredictable and expensive global supply chain.

What he’s been doing is only good for his grift game, not the USA.

If you want to bring manufacturing home, you frame a 5-10 year progressive tariff plan with tax incentives, financing, and grants to help build the infrastructure to progressively fill the demand as the tariffs roll in. Commerce thrives in stable environments with predictable changes, not in chaos and broken promises.

ModernMech 9 minutes ago
Amazing that in 2026 Canada, Iran, and US Circuit Courts have the same stance: the US federal government cannot be trusted to tell the truth about anything. Fish really rots from the head.
mrleinad 33 minutes ago
King Charles should just leave the American continent.
7373737373 24 minutes ago
It's ironic that the US might currently do better with a (constitutional monarchy) king, to serve as an ethical example of living and governance, and change the role of the president to more of a serving bureaucrat
dataviz1000 37 seconds ago
Have you read John Steinbeck's "The Short Reign of Pippin IV?" [0] All political sides in France frustrated decide to create a constitutional monarchy. The Communists supported the idea because it would give everyone something to revolt against.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Short_Reign_of_Pippin_IV

pluc 29 minutes ago
Bad analogy if you're Canadian
metalman 51 minutes ago
People here in Canada have not been sitting still. It is a truely fantastic oportunity, it's almost like 10% of the US market was suddenly transported to another country for free, and all we have to do is fill it.
bulbar 43 minutes ago
Canada and EU tightening their relation, pretty sure there are a lot agreements in the making. Will be great for both and appreciated by the people living in EU (and surely Canada as well).
llm_nerd 41 minutes ago
A lot of it has been half-hearted. Basically "wait out this loser and everything will go back to the way it was". A lot of Americans are leaning on this as well.

Like over the last year we (Canada) should have utterly obliterated the US from any element of the Canadian supply chain. Instead everyone just keeps expecting things to return to normal so no one makes the necessary investments to stop it at the border.

Americans voted for Trump, a child-rapist stunningly stupid criminal, twice. It should never return to the way it was.

jarym 44 minutes ago
Seems like the only thing more expensive and damaging these days than being an enemy of the US is being an ally!

Wonder how long it’ll be before Trump throws his toys out the pram again. Wouldn’t be surprised if he moans his allies have abandoned him.

shevy-java 35 minutes ago
Trump tries to betray Canadians here. When you make negotiations and then at the last second try to worsen the terms, you are not acting in good faith. This is a consistent theme with Trump: he wants to take advantage of you. This is a de-facto mafia system. The "art of the deal" is the mafia way. You can see this with Iran too - Trump negotiates, then attacks. Then fake-negotiates, attacks again (and loses anyway). The guy is a problem for the whole world.
badgersnake 30 minutes ago
Don’t forget, it’s the longest land border in the world, largely remote. Feels like it would be easy to work around with minimal effort.
MattGaiser 24 minutes ago
llm_nerd 56 minutes ago
Importantly Canada has committed to matching every American tariff dollar for dollar, which the US already considers unfathomable. Greer repeatedly cites that only Canada and China retaliated, which is such a weird criticism. Is he intending to compliment us?

So expect Trump to start spiralling.

Canada should begin the process of withdrawing from USMCA, and the truth is that NAFTA cum USMCA has worsened Canada's lot over the past four decades compared to peers. Trade agreements with the US are worthless, and even negotiating with that Epstein pedo cabal of grifters is useless. It sounds like the Canadian team were foolishly going to give in to many things (any concession of any form always comes back to hurt you), but at the last minute Howard "Epstein Island" Nutlick swooped in and tried to extract even more, undoing it all. Which...thank you Nutlick, you disgusting greaseball. You did us a great favour.