crazygringo 21 minutes ago
I love swiping for speed, because it's usually faster than tapping and easy to do one-handed, but then there are always a bunch of words that are too similar that it can never get right, it doesn't deal well with doubled vs single letters, etc.

So for the longest time, I've wanted a new keyboard layout specifically designed for swiping. In the same way that Dvorak was optimized for ergonomically typing English words, I want a keyboard layout designed to minimize word overlap/ambiguity when swiping.

It doesn't even necessarily have to have 26 keys, e.g. maybe there could be one key overloaded for v/w/x/z (and you long-press it if you ever want to type a single letter). On the other hand, maybe there need to be separate keys for 'e' and 'ee', or a special key for "double the previous letter".

Because I love swiping, but all my problems with it come from the fact that the QWERTY layout is far from ideal for it. I am 100% willing to learn a new layout if anyone will develop an optimal one for English so that swiping has a 99.9% accuracy rate instead of what currently feels more like 90% or 95%.

popcar2 4 hours ago
Awesome. I've been using FUTO keyboard for two years now and it's the best free & private keyboard I found, but swiping has been really bad for all these keyboards which was such a pain because I use swiping a lot.

Nice to see the hour of swiping I did adding to their dataset actually helped. I'm using it now and it feels as good as the Google keyboard.

Edit: It is sending me a little that it keeps swiping "whats" instead of "what's" though, hopefully they fix that later.

OJFord 4 minutes ago
The demo at least doesn't support tapping, which makes it a nope for me, even if the swiping experience hadn't been ~hank~ ~help~ hello world.
blopker 4 hours ago
I've been using this keyboard on and off for a while now. I've always switched back to gboard, however this update made me convert full time. It's really good.

There are a few issues, like it randomly capitalizes words in the middle of sentences. Also, it doesn't seem to take context into account when suggesting words, so words that clearly wouldn't follow the last word will often show up.

It's not as good as gboard yet, but close enough that I'm going to stick with it.

Note that if you have a more powerful device, you can get larger models for voice and larger dictionaries from their site. They make a noticeable difference.

The only fundamental issue I have with it, they seem to be ideologically opposed to adding a GIF search, which I miss occasionally. https://github.com/futo-org/android-keyboard/issues/293#issu...

james2doyle 2 hours ago
We sound similar. I have found that the voice to text can often just randomly start spitting out emojis. Did you find that?
rpdillon 2 hours ago
Which voice model are you using? I found that the english-74 is quite excellent. Used it to type this. Haven't seen the emoji issue with that model. Perhaps you're on english-39?

https://keyboard.futo.org/voice-input-models

HiPhish 5 hours ago
For anyone wondering: the library uses the GPLv3 (good) while the Android keyboard uses the Futo License (shit).

- https://gitlab.futo.org/keyboard/swipe-library/-/blob/master...

- https://github.com/futo-org/android-keyboard/blob/master/LIC...

cge 4 hours ago
To add to the license complexity, the model uses another FUTO-written license, though it at least does not seem as bad as the license for the keyboard:

https://huggingface.co/futo-org/futo-swipe/blob/main/LICENSE...

rkagerer 4 hours ago
What's particularly objectionable about the Futo License?

Is it this part?

you may not remove or obscure any functionality in the software related to payment to the Licensor in any copy you distribute to others.

mzajc 4 hours ago
The clause you cited as well as the "Termination" section and the non-commercial restriction make it a non-free license. Besides the direct issues with that, it also means all software covered by this license is unsuitable for FOSS-only distributions like Debian or F-Droid. It's not entirely clear to me if the license is copyleft; derivative works have similar problems if so.

As an aside, Eron Wolf, the billionaire behind FUTO, has some rather... out of touch views[0] on the meaning of open source, and seems very committed to diluting the term to mean something closer source-available by removing the most of the rights granted (as defined by FSF, OSI, DFSG and others).

[0]: https://gitlab.futo.org/eron/public/-/wikis/Thoughts-on-Open... - please keep in mind that the RMS quote at the top is taken out of context; he is arguing for more freedom, not less

SXX 3 hours ago
FUTO also funds some actually open source projects like Immich so not everything about them is bad.
rpdillon 2 hours ago
They also employ Louis Rossman, interestingly.

https://consumerrights.wiki/w/FUTO

nine_k 4 hours ago
> shit

It's just a commercial license with very mild terms.

copper-float 2 hours ago
Yeah, honestly. I love open source as much as the next guy, but I don't understand why people are so up in arms about this. The license feels pretty reasonable.

The source code is fully available, none of the features are paywalled. They only prohibit you from taking their code and reselling it.

If you take a look at the Play Store, there are thousands of instances where open source projects are lazily renamed and sold for $5 or $10. It's the definition of scummy, pathetic, worthless behavior, and I'm glad the license prevents those kinds of leeches from succeeding.

I know this isn't the only case, but it's the majority of cases. So I have no problem with their license at all.

tadfisher 49 minutes ago
The license doesn't prevent those leeches from succeeding. They will republish your app, whether it is fully proprietary or licensed under the GPLv3, and neither Google nor Apple will respond to takedown requests for apps. We get many reports of this behavior in an Android developer community I help moderate, it's pretty obvious there are a few known actors doing this with hundreds of apps, and the stores don't care.

So no, the license doesn't matter.

copper-float 23 minutes ago
Yeah, it's pretty pathetic on Google and Apple's part.

It might be not a foolproof solution, but I think the license is better than nothing. Then you have a legal precedent that you can cite when you file a lawsuit against these rats.

Most of these people doing this probably aren't in the same country. But whatever. It's better than nothing.

Vingdoloras 3 hours ago
After experiencing Nintype on iOS many years ago, I can't use any other swipe keyboard anymore. I'm stuck using the stock keyboard for typing, and sometimes (rarely) swiping a word or two when I din't have two hands available. Swiping (with one finger) when holding my phone with both hands just feels unnatural and sluggish. I wish Apple had just bought/sherlocked Nintype and integrated it into the stock keyboard.
PlotCitizen 3 hours ago
Omg I was using that too! I was actually wondering whether FUTO had any features that supported typing one word with multiple concurrent (or not) swipes. I guess it does not but dang what a blast from the past. I had forgotten the app name too! Was using it since before Apple started actually allowing third party keyboards officially
mightyham 2 hours ago
Completely agree! The author made a buggy android port of nintype (called keyboard 69) that I used for years. The UX was incredible, and every swipe system I've tried since feels downright clumsy by comparison. Two finger swipe is peak ergonomics, but unfortunately I think it's an innovation that's simply too niche.
prism56 4 hours ago
Futo with the new swipe model is the first android keyboard i've used that I don't feel like i'm compromising vs GBoard.

Integrated speak to text, good autocorrect typing, good autocorrect swiping.

functionmouse 4 hours ago
edit: NOT guaranteed to be free and open! seems to have a confusing license setup. Boooo! Works good though, I'll take it over Gboard.

This is such a massive deal. This is, as far as I can tell, the first useful free and open Swipe model. This paves the way for things like swipe typing on platforms other than iOS and Android, a major pain point to newcomer OSes.

gblargg 2 hours ago
Voice dictation is so much better than GBoard, which I've been using until now. It capitalizes and punctuates sentences without me needing to, and got several sentences perfect without any post-editing needed, and it's all a local model. The one downside is no real-time update, just batch conversion once you're done talking. Looks like they've fixed the swipe backspace and spacebar to not be over-sensitive like it was a year or two ago when I last tried (and allowed some customization).
Sebguer 5 hours ago
Great timing given I just installed SwiftKey since Microsoft has started embedding ads and dark pattern redirects to Bing!
speedgoose 4 hours ago
You meant uninstalled, right ?

It’s unfortunate that the Bing team at Microsoft has so much power. They destroy products for the glory of Bing, and some money. Perhaps it’s about the money. But I feel like Microsoft doesn’t have to make a lot of money on everything they do.

skeledrew 4 hours ago
Has to be. I jumped from SwiftKey the moment I heard Microsoft bought it, back in '14 IIRC.
ericol 4 hours ago
Assuming you mean uninstall, yeah I did the same because of that.

I wasn getting a constant panel from them regarding using the backup feature, that will just keep re appearing.

It was so bad I even moved to GBoard. Not the same, but I'm getting used to.

julianlam 3 hours ago
As a FUTO keyboard user for about a year I'm quite excited for this!

Their local voice transcription is top notch and proper swipe gestures would be icing on the cake.

Now to fix that issue there tapping "Tuesd" sometimes suggests "Thursday"

jeena 2 hours ago
I always liked their voice dictation because it's better than Samsungs or Googles while it's on device. It's super fast and puts in punctuation in, etc.

The keyboard on the other hand I never really liked for some reason which I can't even explain clearly. So for the keyboard I've been using https://github.com/HeliBorg/HeliBoard for ever, but it does not have sviping.

I might try FUTO Swipe just to test it.

flexagoon 42 minutes ago
Heliboard does have swiping! You just have to manually download the GBoard swiping library and upload it in the app.
sheept 3 hours ago
It would be nice if there was a swipe typing keyboard that was similar to Chinese/Japanese IMEs where you can swipe out a full phrase and the keyboard can use it to fix short/ambiguous words based on context. Today, when I'm swipe typing sloppily, it can be hard to distinguish between pairs like on/in, of/if/I'd, it's/its, etc
nmstoker 2 hours ago
Is there some sort of swipe data standard? If there were, it feels like getting a few proper OSS projects going might start to shift things in the right direction (assuming they cracked a way to share a bit of anonymized data)
vzaliva 26 minutes ago
what languages it support? They only mention "language-agnostic".
skeledrew 4 hours ago
I've been using HeliBoard for a while now, but IIRC the swipe library it uses is from Google (have to install it separately to comply with license). Wonder how this stacks up.
spicyusername 4 hours ago
Love swipe typing. Nice to see more keyboards in the space.
madspindel 5 hours ago
Must say it's a little bit lame that they are boycotting iOS. I will not change phone just to use this app but it would be nice to be able to replace SwiftKey with this.
zem 4 hours ago
I'm pretty sure there is no way for them to supply an ios version without having to go through some sort of apple approval process. hardly boycotting to say that you're not about to put up with that crap.
eikenberry 4 hours ago
Don't they have to go through a Google approval process for (official) Android? I'm not sure I see this as a big win unless they are strictly supporting GrapheneOS and other de-Googled Androids.
zem 4 hours ago
they do, but it's on fdroid too - at that point the play store is simply a nice to have. if google does anything they don't like they can just say okay and keep publishing on fdroid, they have not lost whatever efforts they have invested into android. apple has absolutely no way to just publish an app and let people install it, which at least to my mind delegitimises them as a viable platform. I'm pretty sure if I made open source mobile apps they would be android only, people would be free to take the source and release an ios version under different branding.
tredre3 3 hours ago
> they do, but it's on fdroid too

It's notoriously not on f-droid. The way FUTO licenses and/or builds its thing is made deliberately incompatible with f-droid's main repository.

You can add the futo repository to the f-droid client, but when people talk about f-droid they really mean the main repository, not the extra hoops to add less trusted third parties.

zem 2 hours ago
sad, I didn't realise that because their website has an "install from f-droid" link. it does reinforce my point that android is a proper platform with a viable distribution mechanism though, if they can self host a third party repository.
exabyte 4 hours ago
true... there are many better reasons to leave iOS than for a keyboard
mft_ 4 hours ago
I assume it would be feasible for someone else to write an iOS keyboard relying on this model?
eikenberry 4 hours ago
Where did they say they were boycotting iOS?
smlacy 5 hours ago
boycotting?
tekacs 5 hours ago
This is amazing! It's driven me nuts for a very long time that so many mobile keyboards allow totally non-sequitur nonsensical sequence completions.

In particular, if you end up using the voice input mode of it and have trouble with accuracy, I would giving a try to the biggest model that it supports. It's slower (although really not bad at all on my Galaxy Fold), but it's so nice to have it actually be as accurate as it is.

james2doyle 2 hours ago
Do they still have that issue where it will randomly spit out a string of emojis when using voice to text?
prism56 4 hours ago
I settled on the middle model.
amelius 4 hours ago
On the one hand snapping to the nearest English word is useful. On the other hand it will prevent our language from evolving.
sheept 3 hours ago
I can't speak for this keyboard, but at least on Gboard, if you type out a word a few times, it'll be stored in its suggestions dictionary and you'll be able to swipe type it.
satvikpendem 5 hours ago
Very cool, I use swipe typing almost exclusively so good to see open models. It just needs to preserve word history for custom words, not sure if it does that.
ibejoeb 3 hours ago
I've been using the new swipe for a few days and it's truly excellent.
ktimespi 3 hours ago
If this can learn my patterns, that itself is enough. Google Keyboard used to do this, but mysteriously doesn't do it anymore.
nozzlegear 5 hours ago
The swipe demo on the website is neat! I wasn't expecting to be able to use it with my mouse.
stavros 30 minutes ago
I really want to switch to FUTO keyboard but there are a few UX issues that prevent me. For example, SwiftKey lets you swipe left to delete a word, which is very useful, but FUTO doesnt, you have to start from the Backspace button.

Or, SwiftKey will allow you to change a typed word's case by pressing shift, but FUTO just does nothing in that case.

I really hope these get fixed, or I can just issue PRs myself for them.

jawns 5 hours ago
I'm curious how it compares with Microsoft SwiftKey. Obviously, that's not an open-source app, but it would be an interesting benchmark.
nh2 2 hours ago
I've been using SwiftKey for 10 years (typing not swiping), and test ran FUTO for the last month.

FUTO improved a lot (I had tried it a year earlier also) but SwiftKey's suggestions are still a lot better in my opinion. With SwiftKey I can just type roughly in the right spot without looking and the correct words will come out most of the time. FUTO still suggests a lot of nonsensical next words that just do not follow after the previous in English.

I hope it improves further so I can switch.

The voice models are great though, and they can be used as part of the keyboard or standalone.

Mashimo 4 hours ago
I'm also a heavy SwiftKey user, but donated some money to futo last year in hopes they improve the keyboard.

SwiftKey got annoying with pushing Ai image Gen and sometimes pop-ups.

kayson 2 hours ago
I've been using it for a while. The insistence of keyboards on having a large bar of autocorrect suggestions taking valuable vertical space annoys me to no end.

I really liked using Fleksy which let you swipe up and down on the keyboard to change autocorrect results, including adding words to your dictionary. I'm still not sure if FUTO even has that option.

BosunoB 3 hours ago
I don't really get swiping. It's always going to be quicker and more efficient to type because you can use both hands, right? And you don't have to swipe your finger across the screen?

Still going strong with Fleksy even though you can't even download it anymore.

ktrnka 2 hours ago
It traces back to accessibility. Think of folks with shaky hands. The screen helps to stabilize the tremors. A similar thing applies to typing on a bumpy bus or while walking.

That said, it also depends on screen size. Back when Swype first became popular, Android screen sizes ranged from 3-5". That was another factor driving it's popularity back in the day.

Definitely not for everyone or in every situation though

xp84 3 hours ago
Sometimes you have one hand full. When my kids were small, especially, I REALLY benefited from swipe typing. I still often use it when I am holding something in one hand.
egypturnash 2 hours ago
If you have long nails then two thumbs on a tiny phone keyboard are pretty much impossible.
nutjob2 2 hours ago
Maybe for you personally, but in a general sense I don't see how you can hold a phone and "use both hands" to type individual keys.

One notable advantage of swiping is that you can be quite loose with each single swipe gesture whereas you have to hit the right key many times for each word. That swipe is also usually much quicker than finding multiple keys for most people.

You preferences may reflect youth, eyesight, finger size, co-ordination, phone case usage or other advantages most people don't have.

OsrsNeedsf2P 5 hours ago
Does anyone know of a FOSS keyboard that supports swiping in Korean? I'm yet to find one
jordand 4 hours ago
I used the FUTO keyboard for a few months but ditched it as the word suggestions were either odd or random (one example: I'd write 'Jordan' and it would always suggest 'Peterson' as the next word), and I'd got a weirdly passive aggressive prompt saying I should really purchase a license. Went back to the de-Googled Android keyboard in GrapheneOS
drewstiff 3 hours ago
Following "Jordan" with "Peterson" doesn't seem random in the slightest
jordand 3 hours ago
It never had my own surname as a suggestion, and there's many people, places and things called 'Jordan' in some way
OsrsNeedsf2P 2 hours ago
So you want it to randomly pick the next word, rather than suggest the most common word?
jordand 2 hours ago
The most common word I entered after my forename is my surname. All other keyboards handled this fine, but FUTO didn't. That's what's odd
stavros 32 minutes ago
I think that, for it to learn a word, you need to actually press the middle suggestion, not just space. I'm not sure, though. Couldn't you add your surname as a custom word?
jacooper 5 hours ago
If only FUTO supported combined keyboard languages without duplicates. Why would there be two separate de and en layouts when multilingual typing is enabled.
functionmouse 4 hours ago
seems to be really good
oehtXRwMkIs 4 hours ago
demo seems worse than heliboard
prism56 4 hours ago
I've used both extensively and it's a fair bit better, but was significantly worse preupdate