The only ones that I've seen beat this dynamic to an extent are the unihertz phones.
Nothing in this suggests consensual self insertion. Perhaps being “Schrodinger’s asshole” was the idea here? The meaning of “punk” in prison context is not ambiguous.
If they collab'ed with some AOSP-based alternatives and/or Jolla, they could build up a really nice alternative market. Especially because these niche phones generally have worse quality than what HMD can offer and being a Finish company, they could play well into the European tech sovereignty story.
Some of you may argue the hardware is customised and developed in-house and that should justify the premium pricing. I would question the business logic of that decision. If the hardware isn't offering anything new (and as far as I can tell it isn't) that isn't already available in the market, why do you want to waste scarce resource on custom solutions instead of using cheaper, readily available designs? It is common knowledge that the consumer mobile device segment is highly competitive, profit margins thin and thus you need high volumes for long-term profitability. Thus, a business strategy that doesn't plan and prioritise for volumes is bound to struggle.
(I am sure there are many factors of this industry that I am ignorant about ... I was just thinking out aloud ...)
I would absolutely have another if there was an updated one.
<https://josebriones.org/dumbphone-finder>
Once you're into the Android or Android-adjacent OS territory (LineageOS, SailfishOS (the Callback runs this), /e/OS, iodeOS, etc.), prices approach flagship mainstream Android or iOS devices ($600+ generally), and GrapheneOS specifically requires Google Pixel, at least until the Motorola partnership bears fruit.
And yes, scale of production and the need to be self-supporting rather than relying on business partnerships, advertising, and surveillance capitalism does tend to incur some price premium, though it's still quite possible to find affordable options.
I'd strongly recommend taking a look at Jose Briones's Dumbphone Finder (mentioned and linked above), his website (<https://josebriones.org/>), Substack (<https://josebriones.substack.com/>), and YouTube phone-review channel (<https://inv.nadeko.net/channel/UCFtVwG0NFd6gT3TXfMCU7oA>) in general, and /r/dumbphones on Reddit for more information. I'm going to write a longer top-level comment summarising the current state of my own research into this topic.
There is a larger community oriented around alternative mobile devices including more reviews and technical information. Given that manufacturers often obscure rather than clarify features and capabilities, this is often a preferred source.
Edit: Corrected device support, originally mis-stated LineageOS as restricted, rather than GrapheneOS.
Not true.
LineageWiki device support page lists a number of options, for those interested: <https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/>.
No one designs a product to get manufacturers, all they need is to make a profit.
I hear that in China they have a lot of franken-PCs reusing recycled chips because they have all the PCB-level design and manufacturing expertise but they can't make chips. They'll take a GPU off its graphics card and solder it onto a laptop, or the reverse, stuff like that. And each design in low quantities based on what models of e-waste they can get. Pine is one of that kind of company although not nearly as extreme. A lot of their plastic cases are repurposed from other devices. The A64 chip is designed to go in set-top boxes. They don't do low-hundred quantities based on e-waste, obviously, they are set up for mass production but they're still using whatever parts they can get their hands on that are surplus to other companies' requirements. That's half the reason they discontinued so many products.
My wife hates every smartphone that is currently in the market. They are all too huge for her. She has an iphone SE which was the best compromise at the time, although she still finds it big. She doesn't want to get a new one, because there is nothing on the market of that size. She doesn't use most the smart features. She only uses it for chat with family and friends and getting email notifications (and reading them, but never replying on the phone). She also uses it as a camera. And calls, including video calls. This might be a solution, although for some reason they say "no email app". I'm hoping you can add one later.
And then as a child's phone to keep them off social media, while also having a chat app to actually communicate with them.
Even for me, it's been some years too that I've been thinking that I don't really need a smartphone. I mostly need a device that I can use to make calls and that I can use as a hotspot for connecting other devices such as a laptop when I need to.
The keyboard will definitely not be an issue. I'm old enough to remember teens using those kind of keyboards typing blindly in astonishing speeds, even without T9.
Lack of 5G might be an issue.
The price is steep. I'm not sure if that is going to be a problem.
They were the ultimate in to small for my fingers, couldn't stand it.
Still the best form factor has the iPhone 4 in my opinion. And here comes the revelation: the iPhone 17 have grown again and the base models all start at 6.3"
The pro max is now 6.9" - the iPad mini is 8.3"
What a massive burden to carry around and still the iPhone aren't good enough for reading long time - a book for example - like the iPad Mini is.
I guess that many "content creators" edit their TikTok stuff when they are on the move and that the iPhone tries to more and more fit for that market.
Also larger device sizes allow for larger batteries - good for local AI and again video editing and consuming as well.
I Own a iPhone 16 and couldn't handle the pro/max option. Too bulky - and the camera lens has sharp edges combined with a slippy surface.
So size is one thing, form another.
The max options are crazy large especially if you consider a case for protection.
Two things
Definitely not. No chat apps, no proper camera, no email, no video calls.
I bought a C64U. I bought a MEGA65. I bought the T-shirt. I own nearly every original Commodore 8-bit. If anybody is the target market for Commodore products, I am the target market, and I am no more nostalgic about or interested in flip phones than I am about fax machines.
It's just like the good old days: Commodore execs shipping absurdly misguided products for the wrong price at the wrong time.
There's nothing wrong with a new company (new as of last year I think?) that owns the Commodore branding, and put out the C64U, to try putting out a new product for a different market.
The glowing Commodore icon just gives it a suitably vintage/retro feel that is aligned with the values of the device. Nothing more, nothing less.
In other words, is for a very specific group of people trying to digitally detox, who like a retro hardware aesthetic, that has nothing to do with C64 enthusiasts.
I've been wrong about products before. But, I've been right more often. I'm confident this product will be a flop. I'll be surprised if it breaks even. Shocked if it makes a profit. And, unsurprised if it proves to be the undoing of the new Commodore before it really ever even gets off the starting block.
The problem is that even among the commodore/amiga crowd, the reception has been pretty uninterested
It would be more interesting to talk about the actual merits of the product.
This product at this price is entirely about leveraging the Commodore brand, and it's leveraging the brand in an incoherent direction. If I thought they were making astronomical margins on a low upfront cost, I would think, "OK, fine, do your little experiment, though I don't like you degrading the brand for no good reason." But, I don't think they're going to make astronomical margins and I don't think the upfront cost is low. I think they're spending a lot of money on a product that will be a flop.
> There aren't any merits to talk about. A flip phone is still a nostalgia play.
In my country we have a sizeable religious community which eschew the smartphone. Dumb phones sell here very well - on merit alone, no nostalgia.
However, it does not necessarily mean there is demand for a quality featurephone: it might be that the demand is so low that it does not make sense to manufacture one.
Everyone who despises Google, Apple and all of the social media companies and wants absolutely no part of them. I'm going to buy one, along with several other people I know. The only thing that has prevented me from going full flip-phone so far is the lack of support for maps and QR scanning (which is unfortunately required if you want to park in some places or engage in certain activities).
As far as the cost goes, I shelled out $500 for an Android/Google phone that I don't like. That being the case, why would shelling out the same amount of money for a phone that isn't tied to one of the toxic tech companies be prohibitive?
Back in the day, I wasn't a fan of Commodore and didn't even own one! I was an Atari 8-bit guy. Hopefully they will cash in and release a similar phone stripped-down phone next year!
The C64U is an amazing achievement but it seems too early to go for the smart phone.
Hopefully there is a niche and their business plan is viable for a small number of sales.
https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/gadgets-tech/b...
Don't let the form factor fool you, this is not a dumb phone.
It's at most a $200 smart phone (doubling the prices for the DAC + IEMs) being sold at > $500 with a funky design, interesting OS and their own app store.
I hope that they sell millions of these things, enough so that they can afford to buy the Amiga IP... just don't see it happening.
People in this thread are trying really hard to invent a customer base for this phone that was seemingly designed for exactly one person.
Why? It's going to be my kids first computer.
Computers today are so absolutely hostile as they are simply attention-sucking sale-terminals. They spend all their time popping up unwanted notifications which are just advertising.
And the interface of modern devices is actually horrible for learning. Some stuff may be intuitive, but the biggest issue is that every slight movement, accidental tap or gesture is linked to something so for kids it's too easy to do something that exits the current program or bring up some sidebar. It's impossible even for me to connect "what did I just do?" with the sudden change in context. It makes it really hard to connect cause and effect. And don't even get me started on how dangerous apps like YouTube are for kids. The recommendation algo seems to surface click-farm scam content in no time. Or weird dopamine traps.
So my kids will start with a device that isn't constantly trying to sell things, they will learn to understand simple systems which has deterministic behavior.
Not to sound overly flippant about it, but that sounds like a "him" problem, not a phone problem? He clearly doesn't see it that way. Instead he's decided that his inability to personally cultivate a healthy relationship to current technology represents a flaw in the technology itself, so we should regress it. Kind of, "Am I so out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong." vibes.
I'm not a father, so I can't speak with authority, but it seems to me the appropriate approach (given technology's advances will not stop) is to nurture the skills in children that help them navigate the waters, not to drain the sea.
I stopped watching after he kept "tearing up" when loading a computer. After a few times it seemed totally fake
The "flip" part of this phone is cute, but the point Commodore makes about using it to punctuate the experience of using the device is significant to me. The Nokia also has a little sliding cover (which I always preferred over the flips as a matter of taste) and indeed the tactile interaction adds something. If it's still always connected to the internet though, it's just a gimmick.
Sadly my cell provider at the time gave me a SIM which just wouldn't work with it, and nowadays it seems like they aren't even available to buy anymore. I'd be interested in this, but not at a 600$ price level. I want a phone which (a) is a phone and (b) is a 5g wifi hotspot on demand and (c) nothing else. After years of casual searching, I have concluded that such a product is either too niche or too countercultural to be allowed.
I used a TP-Link M7650 when I was cut off from fiber for a while and it worked great for me.
There are also many dumbphones which act as hotspots. Most carriers have low nominal charge for ~100 GB of 150--300 Mbps connectivity monthly.
Why not: at least it looks like Commodore is in the hand of people who appreciate the brand.
Like the idea, commodore never had me in its nostalgia, too young, idea is cute, t9 keyboard is workable but I disagree that it’s viable. I want to be wrong of course but
Samsung and apple using their fold flip and discipline fixes the other side. People do not want to detox. Going back to a flip won’t fix it.
Same as the glp1 drugs, people knew food was bad, didn’t stop eating. Started body shame movement. Now that movement seems to have gone silent, glp1s fixed obesity seemingly overnight.
So the question is, what is the future glp1 equilivant for digital detox, a simpler phone or a phone that makes it more complicated to get digital services isn’t it.
Then there’s the argument for price, photo quality and all. No one is going to take photos and edit on a desktop in photoshop or Lightroom. Same as for using two phones and transferring esims, their WhatsApp number, etc
The other way to go is with an ultra-small laptop (typically 12--13"), a tablet with integrated keyboard, or a (usually DIY) cyberdeck.
Gpd makes smaller machines than that.
This is a 9" (well, 8.8") device (display).
Though it looks as if there starts to be a price premium. I'll grant that the specs are impressive.
A bonus is that it has some features for interacting with modern interfaces, like touch sensitive scrolling by swiping along the keyboard.
I'll buy this if there is a way to remove the app restrictions they have. Ideally, I should be able to flash the default SailfishOS
Cheaper with a more powerful SOC and better feature set?
Disable your own features, don’t let Perifractic own you.
I hate my phone, and my relationship with it, but sometimes you just need to use one.
My preferred strategy is having a normal phone, minimal apps, and just keeping it switched off most of the time, particularly round the house.
Thing is, I've got a worse problem with my laptop and desk. Between HN, lichess, and a handful of favoured blogs, I can easily blow a day doing nothing, without the help of a phone.
Honestly, I think something deeper than a different form factor is required. If anyone has found it, let me know.
Best is being out with family, friends, dog. Creating things.
Computer saps my life.
The reality though is, most folks don’t even think how much time they spend on phones, so I hope they can become profitable with devices sold in the thousands.
It's actually surprisingly easy. Flash LineageOS and don't install any nonessential apps which includes no play services. At that point all you have is SMS and the browser. (If you find even just the browser too difficult to resist then configure parental controls I guess.)
Alternatively a less drastic action is to permanently set it to silent. You (and your contacts) get used to it after a few weeks.
I did this with GrapheneOS and a simple launcher. That said, it's not something the average person will ever want to, or maybe even be capable to, do. They want to just pay someone money and get a product that respects them.
If this does that, then it will be well received by the people who care enough to spend money on it. I'll actually be buying one when it launches. My custom solution is "fine"... It's also a pain in my behind.
The entire point of a "dumb" phone like this is to reduce the amount of attention it requires from me. Managing some custom ROM and keeping it up to date actually requires MORE attention in some ways. I kind of hate it even after a year or two of constant tinkering to make it fit me "just right". I'd rather have something that respects me out of the box and spend a little time adapting to it.
Now that's progress.
Tmobile used to let me do that but it was pricey.
I think the kind of user who gets a detox phone will also get an Instax or a second hand old Ixus.
We won't know until someone tries it.
For examples of current offerings, PC Mag 2026 reviews: <https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-point-and-shoot-cameras>.
You want a Linux box in your pocket? Why does a flip phone factor excite you?
The exact same module in fact has been around for a while. Battery is ancient. T9 is ancient.
I have a $70 Linux box in my pocket already. It runs a Buildroot distro and the only real difference is an LTE PHY.
I have lived through the Nokia internet tablet and I’m surprised this isn’t what people aspire to.
It sounds like this Commodore phone might be able to fill that gap. I'll wait for the first few reviews though.
I've been looking into this area for the past month or so and have some hopefully-useful knowledge to share.
For informational resources, I strongly recommend Jose Briones's website <https://josebriones.org/>, Substack <https://josebriones.substack.com/>, Dumbphone Finder <https://www.dumbphones.org/>, YouTube channel <https://inv.nadeko.net/channel/UCFtVwG0NFd6gT3TXfMCU7oA>, and /r/dumbphones on Reddit (which he co-moderates). There are others also sharing information in this space, you should be able to discover at least some especially through YT and Reddit.
First question I'd pose is why do you want out of the Apple/Google phone duopoly? Typical answers would be:
- Intentionality / focus. Avoiding digital distraction and social timesucks. I'd include phone/SMS/messaging spam here.
- Privacy / tracking. Avoiding the pervasive adtech of modern smartphones.
- Cost. Not wanting to throw a megabuck at a new flagship device.
- Quality. Of calls, of hardware, of software, of support (next item).
- Support. Both hardware and software. Is there a solid warranty, is the device repairable, will there be OS and app updates, and for how long?
- Modularity. Whether hardware or software, the ability to add/remove from the standard feature set.
- Specific features. Rugged devices, overall size, screen size, battery capacity, removable batteries, removable modules, flip phones, e-ink / monochrome, keyboard (T-9, QWERTY), headphone jack, etc. Neither Google nor Apple offer choice on most of these for current products.
Second would be what other constraints exist on your options? Typical here would be mobile networking standards (4G and VoLTE are table stakes today, 5G may be soon), physical v. e-SIM, and your must-have capabilities (usually given as apps). Messaging (including group texts, WhatsApp, Signal, Teams, and/or Slack), mapping/navigation, music/podcast/entertainment, rideshare, and banking/finance are what I see come up most frequently. Most or all of these have viable workarounds, but that depends on where you care to compromise.
Third is what OS option(s) fit your needs. Full integration with the Google/Apple worlds will require Android or iOS. Android alternatives will match most mainstream functionality, though Google's making this increasingly difficult. That's GrapheneOS, LineageOS, SailfishOS, /e/OS, and iodeOS generally. Android-lite options, typically based on AOSP (Android Open Source Project), notably including KaiOS are yet further restricted, though have some app support (calculators, FM radio, podcasts, minimal Web browser, sometimes mapping, Signal, etc.). Even "focus-oriented" devices typically permit sideloading apps, so ultimately you are your own gatekeeper.
Fourth is to what extent you're willing to extend your "everyday carry" (EDC) with items to backfill smartphone features you've traded off. For example, an e-reader, camera, flashlight, laptop, MP3 player, or ultra-light laptop.
Fifth is your price range. Options start well under $100, and can go well over $1000, though there's quite a choice in the $100--$%600 range (new), lower if you're willing to pick used/refurbished devices.
I'd argue that intentionality is fairly well served by many options.
Privacy is far harder to establish, and many characteristics of the phone ecosystem independent of smartphone features themselves put some pretty hard limits on what you can accomplish. Cell-tower tracking, call history, contacts, and the like will leave a pretty robust footprint regardless of your OS and app choices. Even secure comms systems leave valuable metadata. My own approach is to consider any phone tainted, and to seek instead to minimise the data on, and generated by, the device. This means relying on other tools for other online tasks ... or moving those tasks offline.
The remaining factors (or others you might consider) tend to be reflected to some extent. There are flip phones, Android-alternative smartphones, feature / dumb phones, e-ink devices, modular phones, rugged phones, cheap phones, big and small phones, touchscreen or keyboarded phones. And lots and lots of headphone jacks.
The options which seem to most often make a splash on HN tend to command price premiums: Light Phone, Punkt, and Commodore are all $300--$600 items, rivaling recent full-featured iOS/Android devices. These options have their strengths, particularly in design and possibly support. Fairphone is another option, starting around $750, with hardware modularity baked in. There are reasons prices tend to run high relative to spec for comparable iOS / Android devices, with fixed costs and lack of economies of scale being key, though upmarket-positioning (warranted or not) is also at play. You'll find discussion of this on Reddit and YouTube, e.g., <https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=Fj61cc3QFdM> and <https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=BurBSG0YSGk>, from Briones and "My Name is Michael" (another informative YouTuber).
That said, there are far less expensive options available, though you'll want to pay attention to your priority list and reviewed quality/experience.
If spam avoidence fits into your intentionality/privacy considerations ... some of the options aren't great. KaiOS, a fairly popular feature-phone OS, lacks specific call-blocking settings, apps, or APIs entirely based on what I've seen. This is ... unfortunate. I'd consider white/grey/black listing to be table stakes in 2026. Most devices offer at best per-number call blocking, which is ridiculous. Ideally I'd have a VoIP call relay which was the only number permitted to directly reach my mobile, with logic on the VoIP system to process incoming calls based on white- / grey- / black list status and other rules (e.g., time of day, availability status).
There's also the option of ditching PSTN (public switched telephone network) largely or entirely, whether through VoIP/SIP systems, alternative messaging platforms, or other options. That's something I'm continuing to explore (and am well behind the curve relative to many).
Probably because you're assuming facts not in evidence. I'm not doubting you, but please provide a source for such an assertion.
I’m saying that as a very happy C64U owner.
Despite Christian’s YouTube channel being all about retro and nostalgia, that not what Commodore is about.
Well he’s wrong. Commodore’s original spirit was all about entering the new digital era, not running away from it. We learned programming, games, demoscene, BBSes, and even Internet on our C64s and Amigas. C64U makes this even better thanks to USB ports and Wifi support, so it’s trivial to keep it connected to the new material while experiencing the nostalgia closest to its authentic form.
This phone is nowhere near it.
Most tech products are sold at somewhere around 3-4x what it costs the company to make them.
If and when that happens the stock will really take off.